tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post3951087490735014033..comments2024-03-26T11:03:45.486+00:00Comments on Let us Talk of Many Things; of Books and Queens and Pirates, of Mystery and Kings...: Tuesday Talk : A Little Matter of Sexism In Fiction?Helen Hollickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04292983846350273039noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-78174740829372595532019-01-21T15:37:57.446+00:002019-01-21T15:37:57.446+00:00A thought provoking piece and thank you to all con...A thought provoking piece and thank you to all contributors for diving into this! I especially appreciated the different perspectives from history!Cryssa Bazoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03339300665743449764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-52913104066878056682019-01-15T15:51:50.697+00:002019-01-15T15:51:50.697+00:00I agree re 'resentism' (love that word!) w...I agree re 'resentism' (love that word!) where modern ideals are superimposed on the past. One area of contention I've met is the refusal by some readers to read a novel where the man is unfaithful. Given that men were often away for months (years!), to expect 'faithfulness' by modern readers is unrealistic. I personally think many women were only too pleased that a husband 'went elsewhere' because of the risks of childbirth.<br />Again it all comes down to context doesn't it?Helen Hollickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292983846350273039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-61086763493727106722019-01-15T15:15:25.341+00:002019-01-15T15:15:25.341+00:00I hate 'presentism' where modern mores are...I hate 'presentism' where modern mores are imposed on a historical period - I call that type of historical fiction 'Disney fiction'. We must be true to the times we write about and one of the challenges is to make the lives and choices of our characters, especially our heroines, plausible and interesting to the modern reader. For example, we cannot ignore coverture, the legal construct whereby a woman's legal person was covered or subsumed by that of her husband so that he had absolute rights over her, her person, her children and her property. But the way we deal with it can make our readers consider the rights and wrongs of it. We can provide sympathy and support for a wife faced with a domineering and overpowering husband for example, or show how, through carefully drawn-up marriage settlements, parents and guardians could ensure that a woman's income and property would be preserved for her through her marriage and widowhood. <br /><br />In fairness to the author of the 'vacant eyes' book, he may have wanted to create an obnoxious character so as to condemn misogyny. I haven't read it, so I cannot say.Catherine Kullmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783748269726699549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-22294799517848308582019-01-15T13:37:06.382+00:002019-01-15T13:37:06.382+00:00100% agree!100% agree!Helen Hollickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292983846350273039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-11008607723994642132019-01-15T13:26:02.797+00:002019-01-15T13:26:02.797+00:00Very interesting read. And I seriously doubt any n...Very interesting read. And I seriously doubt any normal 14th century man would consider vacant-eyes females a turn on. It is my belief that most men and women throughout history have formed partnerships to handle the challenges of surviving/procreating in a tough world. Yes, women were seen as weaker, had fewer right - but they did have rights! - and were occasionally considred more dense (by some) At the same time, said dense women were left in charge of managing huge estates when their hubbies galloped off to war, and there are various examples throughout history of tough-as-boots ladies who definitely led from the front. <br />I think anyone writing about women in the past must of course research both the context and the restrictions a woman would face while never forgetting that most women are as strong and determined as their male counterparts. Had they not been, the human race would long since have become extinct...Anna Belfragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09159728310623757488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-55821710500450939072019-01-15T13:12:47.989+00:002019-01-15T13:12:47.989+00:00(no problem re the typos!) While I would hate to s...(no problem re the typos!) While I would hate to see 'political correctness' creeping into fiction (as it did back in the 70s/80s ... I recall a pony story where the black pony was, in the original story, called Black Boy (because he was a gelding/boy and black!) but this was changed to Blackie for some daft reason. What nonsense) Anyway... I think the point is authors should take care to be sensible with this sensitive subject, if a phrase or action is 'in character' or needed for the plot then fine, go ahead, if it is for mere reader titillation then it's a no-no. (unless for the specific genre of erotica-type novels, of course, where sexual references are expected to be present.)Helen Hollickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292983846350273039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-19668760536989973642019-01-15T12:42:42.809+00:002019-01-15T12:42:42.809+00:00Apologies for the typos: blame it on fat, rather u...Apologies for the typos: blame it on fat, rather unmanipulative fingers, brain running too far ahead of hands and the sheer arrogance of failing to check through before posting ....Richard Tearlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593521217135620570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6132364668526714411.post-11552567321395054912019-01-15T11:59:52.853+00:002019-01-15T11:59:52.853+00:00Extremely interesting points from all 4 contributo...Extremely interesting points from all 4 contributors here. The Law Society still, I believe, defines the ordinary person as 'The MAN on the Clapham Omnibus'; when, in recent times, Society began to shed some shackles, we got the embarrassing references such as 'Madam Chairman'. Which, I think, says a lot; male 'dominance' has been set in our ways for several centuries - if not millenia. Without starting a whole new argument, I believe that organised religion has a lot to do with that...However, for fiction, the Person on the Clapham Omnibus has some pre-ordained ideas about the role of women in any given era - and they are not always good ones! Whilst we don't know how true the stories may be should authos reflect thewm for their audience? Will they lose readers if they don't? The truth is that, ehastever we men may think, wonmen have always been no less intelligent than their male counterparts, just less influential (generally speaking) and that is because of men! Yes, I own up to it - men have been arrogant thropughout the ages and relatively few women have been able to filter through the net of prejudiceas. And whose fault is that? As for the 'famous author'; unless the character is a defined mysoginist, I think it wrong to exagerate his thoughts. 'Angel in the kitchen, Devil in the bedroom' is the phrase that springs to mind and I, for one, have never gone for that ....Richard Tearlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593521217135620570noreply@blogger.com